The following are excerpts from conversations in 2008 - 2009 that lobbyist Niira Radia had with politicians and media figures in connection with the appointment of DMK ministers at the Centre:
Radia to A Raja : "the old man (MK) is senile and he is not going to be around any longer,"
A Raja - Nira Radia
22 May 2009, 09:48:51
Nira: Hello?
Raja: Raja here
Nira: Hi! I got a message from Barkha Dutt just now
Raja: Huh?
Nira: Barkha Dutt
Raja: What does she say?
Nira: She says… that she has been following up the story with Prime Minister’s Office tonight. In fact, she was the one who told me that Sonia Gandhi went there. She says that he has no problem with you, but he has a problem with Baalu.
Raja: …but it has to be discussed with Leader
Nira: yeah, yeah… he has to discuss with the Leader. He has to tell…
Raja: It will be discussed in the morning… why unnecessarily Congress… [indiscernible] tie-up is going out
Nira: No, but then the question is about Azhagiri, no?
Raja: Huh?
Nira: Azhagiri’s people are saying: why is Maran getting Cabinet when he is such a senior leader himself?
Raja: That is different, but all these things must be explored and disclosed
Nira: That’s right. That’s right. I told her to get Congress…
Raja: At least, one to one, let it be disclosed to Leader
Nira: One to one?
Raja: One to one. Somebody should give a message, at least in a sealed cover, that we are having serious problems to Baalu
Nira: From Congress, right?
R: Yes
N: Okay, I’ll tell her. She is talking to Ahmed Patel, so I will talk to him
Raja: Let him [sic] call at least over phone: Sir, this is problem… we are having high regard, we are having no problem with Raja, but problem is Baalu. Tell.
May 23, 2009, 14:29:41
Nira: Raja how are you?
Raja: Haan, What she is telling, Kani is telling?
Nira: She’s telling that she’s okay about it. She has no problem…
Raja: Hmm
Nira: …but the only thing is that somebody has to go talk to Azhagiri, which you have to do.
Raja: Hmm
Nira: And tell him how Maranhas gone and told…
Raja: Haan, I already spoke with him, I already spoke with him…
Nira: You told him what he has told the Congress leaders in Delhi?
Raja: I know. So who planted in the minds of the Congress saying that Azhagiri doesn’t know English… I know…
Nira: No, no, no, no…. Not only that. Not only that. That he and Stalin tomorrow will be the only ones left to run the party because the old man is senile and he is not going to be around any longer, and therefore Congress will be happy doing business with him because it will be him… him eventually, and he controls Stalin.
Raja: Hmm…
Nira: This is what he has said.
Raja: Oh, ho, ho, ho!
Nira: And that Azhagiri is criminal…
Raja: Hmm…
Nira: And he has not even studied more than 5th standard.
Raja: Oh…
Nira: That’s the exact thing that he has told.
May 24, 2009, 11:05:11
..............
Raja: Tell me, Nira, anything?
Nira: I sent you an SMS. I’ve been speaking to Kani, so I just thought that… basically what they are saying is that you should be there.
Raja: Haan
Nira: Leader is generally is saying that you should be there, because of the, you know, the Dalit dispensation, all that, you know. The Dravidian, the party, and all that… saying that Leader, if it was left to him, he would have focused on the party first. This is unfortunate that his family is coming in the way and Cho Ramaswamy has given a favourable remark that it should be limited to this thing
Raja: Okay
.........
Nira: And Azhagiri… he knows what Maran has been saying about him?
Raja: …it is known to Azhagiri.
Nira: It is, no?
Raja: It is known to Azhagiri, but he cannot talk with father… timely (sic) he will speak, only thing is, Maran will start the campaign against me…
Nira: Hmm
Raja: …that has to be taken care of
Nira: You have to fight differently.
Raja: Hmm… he may tell the press Prime Minister is coming again... this and that… spectrum…
Nira: No, no… we are handling… don’t worry. We have to take so much off, you know, even Congress had to make that statement, no? I spoke to Sunil Mittal…Did Chandoliya tell you?
Raja: I didn’t know
Nira: I told him to stop. I told him, it doesn’t help…
Raja: Hmm …tell Sunil Mittal, you have to work along with Raja for another five years. So, don’t …
Nira: I told him that. I told him that. But then you also have to distance yourself from Anil. You must be neutral.
Raja: Ah that we can keep.
— Courtesy Outlook
Kanimozhi - Nira Radia
May 22, 2009, 10:45:06
Kanni: Hello.
Nira: Kanni, apparently they relayed to your father yesterday…
Kanni: Mm-hmm.
Nira: That they do not want to give any infrastructure portfolio to Balu or Maran.
Kanni: Yeah. But nobody, who told it?
Nira: No, no. He was told apparently very, very clearly, it has been…
Kanni: No, he was not, he was not. That is the problem. Who came and told him?
Nira: They came in or, you know, told him or they must have spoken to him and Prime Minister spoke to him.
Kanni: No. Prime Minister did not. I was the one who was talking with him. I was on the phone and he – Prime Minister said a few words, that’s all. And see, Prime Minister can’t talk on a phone to dad and convey, there is obviously… Prime Minister is also, you know, very soft spoken and dad can’t hear that clearly also.
Nira: Mm-hmm.
.........
Nira: Right. Right. Okay. Okay. Listen, I’m meeting your mom at 12:30 hopefully.
Kanni: Okay. I’m here, I’m around.
Nira: Okay.
Kanni: Please don’t tell this to mom, she will mess it up and go and tell some rubbish.
May 22, 2009, 14:46:15
.........
Kanni: Okay. No, no, Daya is going to the swearing-in, no?
Nira: No, that’s what I’ve heard from Congress that he has given his name, that he is going to the swearing-in.
Kanni: I don’t know, he is supposed to come back with me. So, I mean, it’s just that he’s going out to say that whatever – in spite of whatever my leaders says, I’m [Indiscernible] [0:01:32.4].
Nira: Yeah, but your dad should be told, no?
Kanni: That is what, he will come and give some stupid cock and bull story to him. He will say Ahmed Patel – no, no, he will come and say Ahmed Patel called. He said at least you should come, you’re the only representative, that you’re the face of DMK. If you’re not there, it won’t be good.
Nira: If your dad were to say to him that I only authorized Raja to go, no? If your dad said, dad to tell Raja to tell Maran that I only authorized Raja not you.
Kanni: No, dad won’t, no way [Indiscernible] [0:02:09.5] have to call up dad and tell him, no I can’t.
Nira: I know you’re fed up of it, but this is only a start, no?
Kanni: Yeah, yeah.
Nira: Politics, my dear.
Kanni: You don’t mind doing politics with other people, yes [Indiscernible] [0:02:30.3].
Nira: I know, but it’s okay, but I know you are frustrated with him, so just leave him, just ignore him and you know he’ll soon become irrelevant. But you have to….
Kanni: [Indiscernible] [0:02:38:6] it’s not that. No, no, it is not that, you know. See, I don’t mind [Indiscernible] that somebody is against your own party and leader, that is what….
May 22, 2009, 20:04:19
.........
Nira: Nobody said anything; the prime minister has not made a statement.
Kanni: Not the prime minister. When they come to meet dad…
Nira: Agreed. But Kanni, the prime minister has just made a statement that I have no problem with Raja and Baalu, they’re my esteemed colleagues. Prime minister has just made that statement.
Kanni: He can make a statement, but whoever is going to come and talk to dad shouldn’t talk otherwise. Because, see, what people say outside and what actually they mean is very different and all of us know that in politics. You can always call somebody your friend and then come and have a discussion and say, see, I don’t want this person. That is for public appearances, we do a lot of things. So I’m just saying make sure that whoever is going to come and talk doesn’t talk against this guy, because I heard from another source that they….
Nira: Well, okay. Yes, I spoke to Raja also.
May 23, 2009, 09:59:02
.........
Nira: I did that, yeah. This morning, all my messages to everyone went that it’s he is the only one. And I explained the whole Alagiri expect, that they have to understand that he is a mass leader. And in any case, in any party, priority would always go to a mass leader.
Kanni: Exactly.
Nira: Yeah, so he is not a mass leader and therefore he is not a priority, he is trying it.
Kanni: We have other elections coming [Indiscernible] [0:04:06:6]. We do not want to antagonize all his followers.
Nira: Yes, correct.
Kanni: But actually one thing is you can tell them also, even if they are not happy, you can do exactly what Lalu did. You can get a good MOS under him, who will answer [Indiscernible] he has to deal with, he will answer.
Nira: Correct. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I don’t think they have a problem with him, by the way. They don’t have a problem with Alagiri. Congress has no problem with him.
Kanni: No, no, so that is a problem. But this guy is the one who wants telecom and he is spreading rumors, but I don’t think even the DMK is interested in giving him telecom.
— Courtesy Outlook
Vir Sanghvi - Nira Radia
June 20 2009, 12:09:59
.........
Radia: I just got out of this treadmill. On this battle. I need to, I’m trying to get Mukesh to come out and talk.
Vir: Yeah.
Radia: But the thing is this, we have to, if he talks, we have to carry it as is, in the sense that you know he, I think, they’re very conscious of every line and everything that goes out.
Vir: Yeah.
Radia: Because it’s a battle. It’s a battle at the end of the day for him, you know. And also, whether we bring it into print.
Vir: Right.
Radia: That’s the other issue. I think the… Vir: But see Anil can’t afford to give interviews because he will be asked about Amar Singh, so many things, so that the advantage Mukesh has is that he can talk and there is nothing for him to be embarrassed about. So many skeletons in Anil’s closet that he doesn’t want to clarify. If he comes on, he says, ‘Amar Singh is my close friend,’ he is f****d. If he comes on, he says, ‘I have no relations with Amar Singh,’ Amar Singh will kill him. I mean there are so many awkward things, so Anil has decided to avoid the media. Mukesh doesn’t have that problem. Mukesh can talk straight, can say things. You can rehearse. You canwork out a script in advance. You can go exactly according to the script. Anil can’t do any of those things, no?
Radia: Right. But we can do that, no?
Vir: Yeah.
Radia:Yeah?
Vir: But Mukesh has to be on board.
He has to sort of realise. It has to be fully scripted.
Radia: No, that’s what I mean. I think that’s what he’s asking me.
Vir: Yes, it has to be fully scripted.
Radia: He is saying is that, ‘Look Niira’, that ‘I don’t want anything extempore.’
Vir: No, it has to be fully scripted. I have to come in and do a run through with him before.
Radia: Yeah, yeah.
Vir: We have to rehearse it before the cameras come in.
Radia: Yeah, yeah.
........
Vir: What kind of story do you want? Because this will go as Counterpoint, so it will be like most-most read, but it can’t seem too slanted, yet it is an ideal opportunity to get all the points across.
Radia: But basically, the point is what has happened as far as the High Court is concerned is a very painful thing for the country because what is done is against national interest.
Vir: Okay.
Radia: I think that’s the underlying
message.
Vir: Okay. That message we will do. That allocation of resources which are scarce national resources of a poor country cannot be done in this arbitrary fashion to benefit a few rich people.
Radia: That’s right.
........
Vir: So I will link it to the election verdict. The fact that there has been so much Narega, that Sonia has committed to including everybody, that it should be inclusive growth. It shouldn’t just benefit the few fat cats. It shouldn’t be cronyism. It shouldn’t be arbitrary. That’s how the message for this five years of Manmohan Singh should be---that you have to put an end to this kind of allocations of scarce resources on the basis of corruption and arbitrariness at the cost of the country, otherwise the country will not forgive you.
Radia: Yeah, but Vir, you have to keep in mind that he has been given the gas field by the Government to operate. He spent ten billion dollars on it.
Vir: Okay.
Radia: Anil Ambani is getting the benefit without spending a cent on it…
Vir: I’ll make those points, no?
Radia: Yeah.
Vir: So I’ll make those points. The people, because the system is so corrupt and open to manipulation, by manipulating the system, by not paying anybody you can get hands on resources. Therefore the only way Manmohan Singh hopes to survive is to get a handle on the resources and have some kind of way of allocating them that is transparent, fair and perhaps done by him.
Radia: But there you will be attacking Mukesh only, no.
Vir: Why, why, why, explain that.
Radia: You see, because a resource has been allocated to Mukesh in this case.
Vir: So, what point do you want me to make?
Radia: The point I’m making is that here, the point is limited to the fact that you cannot have a High Court deciding on this. You cannot have a tribunal deciding on this.
.........
Radia: Yeah. But you want to say that you know, more importantly that here a family MoU has taken precedence over national interest, and what the judge has done… I mean you’ll have to attack the judge here because the judge has, what he’s done, he’s given preference to an MoU. He has held on to the MoU and said, ‘Okay, this had to be implemented.’ But he has forgotten what’s good, that’s why it raises a bigger constitutional issue.
Vir: Which is?
Radia: Which is natural resources is really a constitutional issue. It has to do with the country and the nation.
Vir: It’s not between two brothers and their fight.
— Courtesy Open
Barkha Dutt - Nira Radia
22 May 2009, 10:47:33
Barkha: Haan, Niira?
Radia: Barkha, what I’m told is that the Congress yesterday, apparently, God knows who they are talking to in the DMK.
Barkha: Haan, well must be Maran…
Radia: Relayed---no, they relayed that the infrastructure portfolio should not be given to Maran or Baalu.
Barkha: No, that’s because they want to keep it for themselves.
Radia: No, they wanted to; they didn’t want any infrastructure, that’s what Prime Minister said, so he said that’s why they give him labour, fertiliser, chemical---and telecom, IT, they said for Raja. So what has happened is, is that message not relayed to Karunanidhi?
Barkha: Oh I see!
Radia: They might have told some minion down the line or told Maran who is not relaying the truth.
Barkha: I think they have told Maran.
Radia: Yeah, now what they need to do is, they need to speak to Kani so she can set up the discussion with her father, because even the Prime Minister’s discussion was … she was the one who’s translating, and it was a very brief discussion for two minutes.
Blog by Vir Sanghvi: 'In my defence to the Radia tapes'
“Several months ago, stories began appearing in a section of the media suggesting that I — along with other journalists — had lobbied on behalf of A Raja.
As I have never met Mr Raja and have attacked his corruption in both print and TV, these assertions struck me as bizarre. The stories were based on tape-recorded conversations that Niira Radia had with innumerable individuals, including several journalists. A magazine has now published what purports to be transcripts of those conversations though it says “We are in no position to endorse the contents of the recordings” which presumably means that it is not guaranteeing their authenticity.
While nobody can remember verbatim every conversation that took place 19 months ago, these transcripts do not appear to be entirely accurate. Moreover, there is nothing at all in the transcripts to suggest that I lobbied for Mr Raja. The conversations recorded relate to the phase when there was an impasse between the DMK and the Congress. Ms Radia called several journalists, including me, to ask us to convey a message to any Congress leaders we met in the course of our work. This message was, essentially, that the Congress was communicating with the wrong people in the DMK.
While gathering news, journalists talk to a wide variety of sources from all walks of life, especially when a fast-moving story is unfolding. Out of a desire to elicit more information from these sources, we are generally polite. I received many calls from different sources during that period. In no case did I act on those requests as anybody in the government will know.
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